Wednesday, August 02, 2006

Dialog: The Gospel, Social Injustice and War

I have been having a very stimulating and enlightening conversation with Thabiti Anyabwile, one of my Reformed Christian brothers, over at Pure Church. His post entitled, "'This Day and Age' and the Church" served as a starting point for the dialog. I welcome you to read the original entry, as well as the comments below and weigh in on the very important questions that we both have raised during the course of the dialog.

Rod said...
You raise some important questions about the church's willingness to suffer physically or politically for the Kingdom of God. However, I would have to say that there is a fairly large contingent of Christians who are very vocal about issues of sexual morality, particularly as it pertains to homosexuality. Perhaps we also need to ask, can we address these issues in a spirit of love and be as adamant about the sins of structural poverty and aggressive militarism, which tends to be advocated by those who identify themselves as Christian?

FellowElder said...
Rod,You raise worthy questions in many regards. The difficulty in the questions, however, is that they tend toward two additional problems: (1) a social gospel orientation, which historically has resulted in "another gospel which is no gospel at all." So, I'd be concerned about how this question (in practice, not inherently) impinges upon the preaching of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, for the glory of God alone. (2) The questions tend to become rather vague, at least in terms of how you define both key concepts and the persons who need to repent of these sins. For example, poverty (not to mention structural poverty) is a fairly relative construct. The extent to which it's useful depends on how you define the measure and where you are located. And then, exactly who is to repent of such sins or suffer in opposition to such sins? Assuming you could define them well, I'm not sure how it translates into specific, biblical Christian action or that the Scriptures define poverty or "militarism" as sin (keeping in mind, for example, that Jesus was poor by the standard of the Law and that Rom. 13 provides nation-states with the ability to protect themselves).

But ultimately, I think your question possibly confounds the kingdom of God (as I was trying to discuss in the original post) with the kingdom of this world (poverty, militarism, etc.). I could be misreading you here, but you seem to pose this question as a "counter" to the question I raised of suffering for the kingdom's sake. Am I misreading you here?

Rod said...
On the first "problem" that you raise, I will say that the gospel is inherently social, as well as personal. When Jesus reads the Scripture and says that He is anointed to preach the gospel to the poor, He is not just talking about spiritual poverty, based on the theological and social context of the time; he is also speaking to the oppressive material realities of life under Roman colonialism. The biblical references which address social and political issues are manifold and can not be read as an addendum to the faith. They are integral to it.

I was general, because these conversations can get rather lengthy. Sin is both individual and collective, which is why God says the sins of the fathers are often visited upon the children and in the Old Testament we see the nation being called to repentence. The principalities and powers that Paul speaks of operate through socio-economic and political systems that human agents help to maintain. If there are unjust elements within the social structure of a society, those who are conscious of their complicity should repent and work towards a more righteous order. The fact that the vast majority of the millions of poor people in the United States work, is the most obvious testimony that despite the virtues of this country, it is far from the Kingdom that Jesus preached about and embodied.

Hopefully, you can see that in no way do I confound the Kingdom of God with the kingdom of this world. Quite the contrary. It is interesting that Pontius Pilate, acting on behalf of the Roman empire, crucified Christ to avoid another Jewish uprising. It was the politically expedient thing to do.

Though we may consider violence and war to be a necessary evil in our world we can not say that Jesus endorses that political option. If it were only used to protect innocent people and not to promote the economic interests of nation-states or to react disproportionately in the name of self-defense we would have a much more peaceful world. These are issues that the church must address. The salvation of the individual is intricately tied to that of the community and society. So, I agree that the Christian is called to suffer for the sake of the Kingdom, but the Kingdom is much broader than what is often assumed.


Read more in the comments section of "'This Day and Age' and the Church" at the Pure Church blog.

6 Comments:

At 6:13 PM , Blogger FellowElder said...

Rod,
Thanks for stimulating this conversation and inviting others to join! Grace and peace,
Thabiti

 
At 6:39 PM , Blogger postmodernegro said...

Rod,

I just posted over at fellowelder's blog. I look forward to the discussion. Great dialogue...I love it!

 
At 4:20 PM , Blogger The Captain said...

I find that these discussions are based in fallacies within theological constraints without full understanding.

 
At 6:25 PM , Blogger postmodernegro said...

captain,

how so?

 
At 8:24 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

You wrote:

"Though we may consider violence and war to be a necessary evil in our world we can not say that Jesus endorses that political option. If it were only used to protect innocent people and not to promote the economic interests of nation-states or to react disproportionately in the name of self-defense we would have a much more peaceful world."

This sounds niave. How can you have a state without statecraft? Do you think the state will function without a blemish when neither the church or you have lived perfect lives.

Didn't Paul affirm the governmental powers and implicitly their authority to kill and to keep peace when writing:

first of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made for everyone, for kings and all who are in high positions. from Timothy

or

Titus 3:1

Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities...

Or Romans 13:1

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except by God, and those authorities taht exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incure judgement. for rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but bad.

So, why all this incendiary political talk? Is that the role of a Christian leader? No, you are caught up in a political movement veiled as Christianity. Moreover, you are off into an Anti-Christ movement. You are an Anti-Christ.

 
At 11:51 AM , Blogger Rod said...

I see why you posted anonymously, because you probably realize how cavalier your use of the term "anti-Christ" is. If you're going to make such a statement be bold enough to own it. Don't hide behind anonymity.

The references to anti-Christ are found in 1st and 2nd John. Here are a couple of passages, where the term is mentioned:

"I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also," (1 John 2:21-23).

"This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world," (1 John 4:2-3).

These passages are subject to multiple interpretations, but we will keep it simple. I have not denied that Jesus is the Christ or that He has come in the flesh. On this blog I have preached nothing, but Christ and Him crucified, while bearing my soul and sharing my struggles.

Now back to the topic at hand. Is the call for peace and justice in a violent and unrighteous world naive? Without question. Paul said the Gospel is foolish to the world. We serve a lord who was executed as a criminal and terrorist and we have the audacity to believe that He was resurrected from death and rules from Heaven, despite the evil and chaos that still plagues the earth. Most of us do not have enough faith to transcend our pragmatism (and I am know different), but that does not mean that we can deny that the Lord is always calling us to lead extraordinary, even impossible lives, because with God all things are possible.

One always has to go to Paul to find a biblical reference which seems to legitimate government authority and the seemingly inevitable violence of statecraft. We have four gospels which testify to the life and ministry of Christ and in none of them do we see Him support the violence of the state or the revolutionary. What He does say is that "My Kingdom is not of this world, if it it were my servants would fight so that I would not be delivered to the [Jewish leaders]," (John 18:36).

In God's kingdom as it continues to grow through the faithfulness of the saints, we will experience more of the peace of Christ, no matter how naive that prospect may seem in the meantime. That is why we walk by faith and not by sight.

As for Paul, encouraging us to pray for those in authority, how does that translate as an endorsement of imperialism and wars which produce excessive amounts of civilian casualities? Given that Paul is a disciple of Christ, is it possible that He prayed that Caesar and his patrons would be influenced by the peace of God's Kingdom more so than the violence of the old world which was and is passing away?

Paul could also be addressing a certain contingency of Jewish-Christians who may have been influenced by the zealot movement which considered violent rebellion as a viable option in opposing the Roman Empire. Paul understood that in order to follow Christ, one must embody His love and peace and he was teaching the body of believers accordingly. Some of his instructions could also be read as pragmatic advice in how to survive under a violent and repressive regime.

How seriously do we take Paul's claim that "there is no authority except by God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God." If Christians really believe that, why did we spend billions of dollars and sacrifice countless lives in challenging the Soviet Union? Why did we try to overthrow Saddam Hussein (unless you still believe that the Bush administration did not know that their case was grossly exaggerated)? Why are we preparing for the possibility of war with Iran if every authority that exists comes from God? According to your interpretation of the text we will incur judgement from resisting the divine order of things. Or is it just the government of the United States and our allies that are appointed by God. Perhaps its just those that have a majority of people who identify themselves as Christian. The problem with that rational is that during the time of Paul, Rome is still considered to be pagan and idolatrous from the standard theological perspective of the time. Hussein was a terrible dictator, but certainly was not any more murderous then any of Rome's succession of Caesars, especially those such as Nero and Domitian.

The Gospel is political. Everything in the ancient world was as is the situation now. There was no separation between religion, politics or economics. Christ dealt with the spiritual realities that undergird the material, but he did not ignore the latter. He walked in the tradition of the prophets of the Old Testament, as have many Christians and Jews in our country. I pray that I too may be faithful to that tradition, of which Christ is the apex.

As for movements of justice, thank God for them or people like me would still be enslaved and living in a state of legalized segregation and discrimination. Women would continue to be oppressed and objectified far worst than they are now, were it not for movements. If you feel called to pray and support from the sidelines, please do. But, we just ask that you do not oppose God's will to continuously redeem His creation and make it a little more like heaven day by day.

 

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